Inside an NBN node at Umina Beach

NBN: 5 drop outs daily “acceptable” on new FTTN network

Leaked internal documents detailing the fault resolution process on the FTTN/B network suggests a nightmare process awaits millions of Australians

A leaked document from the company responsible for building the National Broadband Network (nbn) has revealed insights into the fault ratification process for its Fibre to the Node and  Basement networks.

The freshly leaked document, first published by technology publication Delimiter, is the latest addition to a string of damaging leaked documents from within the company within the last few weeks alone.

5 drops out a day? That’s “acceptable”

Australians shouldn’t expect their current unexpected drop-outs to be fixed after upgrading to the new Fibre to the Node network.

On page 21, nbn describes how it plans to diagnose a user experiencing drop-out issues on the Fibre to the Node and Fibre to the Basement networks.

A user experiencing on average 2.4 resync events (colloquially known as dropouts) per day as being connected to a “stable” connection. It goes on to explain that connections experiencing up to 5 dropouts a day as being “risky” — yet “nbn regards risky [connections] as acceptable”.

NBN considers 5 drop outs per day as "acceptable"
NBN considers 5 drop outs per day as “acceptable”

The company suggests putting risky connections into a lower sync speed by assigning them to a “stability” profile in the hope of reduced drop-out rates.

Modems must be approved, or faults cannot be logged

The NBN company is insisting that end users must use an approved modem, certified to be working by an NBN service provider, in order for a fault to be lodged.

Despite the requirement of an approved modem, nbn has refused a freedom of information request to provide a list of modems that are approved for connecting to the NBN network to the public. Nor can members of the public request models of modems to be tested for registration.

This forces all end users to purchase the low-end, consumer-grade modem approved by their service providers such as the cheap sagecomm f@st modem line-up preferred by some major carriers. The flaw in this is that many sagecomm modems have a ton. of. security.exploits.

$50 No Fault Found charge if problem is beyond the network boundary

Unlike on its fibre network, nbn will charge end users $50 for a “No Fault Found”call-out fee for the FTTN and FTTB network where the technician identifies no faults on the line or if the fault is within the end user’s house (for example, a bridge tap inside the home).

This fee, similar to one currently charged by Telstra, is set to discourage end users from lodging faults and risk paying a $50 No Fault Found charge if a fault is not identified.

So here we are again, folks:

  • It’s okay for this new $56 billion dollar network to drop out 1, 2… maybe 5 times a day — that’s totally acceptable!
  • You’re after a modem that’s higher quality, possibly enterprise-grade, instead than the cheapo modem your service provider sold to you? Not only will we not tell you what modems you can get, you can’t even get new modems approved if you wanted!
  • Finally, think you have a fault? Think again — we can slug you $50 if you complain about the network and we don’t find anything wrong with it!

What a wonderful broadband network this is going to be!

Kenneth Tsang

I'm the author of jxeeno™ blog and co-founder of I'm a bit of an #NBN and public transport geek. You can normally find me juggling work and my studies at UNSW where I'm currently completing a degree in Geospatial Engineering.

  • blackpaw

    What a debacle, I honestly never thought even the LNP could screw it up this badly.

    • Steve Cunningham

      I had 100% confidence in the LNP screwing it up this badly.

  • moldor

    I got all excited when I called them the other day and they said that my area (Bowen Mountain) is “on the radar” for starting early 2017, and the first connections in Q2 2018. FTTN, with an option of paying for FTTP (WANT !!)… But if this POS network is going to drop out that much, I”m not sure now. My crappy ADSL has been rock solid for the last 3 weeks, and that’s on 40yo copper wire.

  • Could Be Ian

    Telstra already has FTTN everywhere! Just need FTTH and we’d be fine. Imbeciles

  • FTTP/H is the best solution, drop that copper thing which we all know are rotten.

  • Ben Evans

    FTTN is giving me 97.6Mbs. so stop the bull shit you need FTTH. Labor was never going to let the NBN Give over 100Mbs so FTTH would be a waste of money when copper can deliver the speed needed.

    ISPs that will not give you your paid speed are a joke. my ISP myrepublic is pushing 107Mbs so you can push more to get to the speed needed.
    FTTH would not stop drop out as the NBN modem is another DSL (ADSL) modem and if it your ADSL never dropped out then you should never drop out under NBN network.
    NBN co are the ones that give permission for everything done on the network and would be the ones that are causing the drop out not your ISP or FTTN just google it and your can see every ISP has the issue.
    remember Cable can get over 100Mbs its copper.
    Once everyone is on NBN and people are off ADSL and on NBN the networks should become more stable

    • mdcheese

      thats cause you are closer to the node with your cable you dipshit.
      i am a visible 200m from the node but my cable runs around the fucking block and i am getting max. 42/12 out of the cable. this wouldnt happen with ftth/p as there wont be a degradation over distance. fucking think about advantages and disadvantages of both cable networks.

      • Ben Evans

        Your a special one mdcheese.
        Im in nbn 400m from the node. 107 is to the router the socket in the wall “dipshit”.
        You have no understanding of the network eith your bull shit.

        Had nbn co tech out the other day because of drop outs and it was due to a cable that was just in and not clicked in.

        Fftp/ftth doesnt mean you get 100Mb still resistance in the router then if connected qith wifi you have loss again.

        Get off ya bandwagon of bull shit. The facts are that you can get topspeeds you sort it out with your isp. Dipshit

        • mdcheese

          are you sure about that?
          like i said i am 200m from the node but because of circumstances the torpedo or pillar is around 150m further away from the node the cabling from my house runs to there and then back to the node a guy who lives 40m away from the same node gets 60/15 sync rate with the modem. my network is hardwired meaning all cat6 cabling in the house with every component except for mobile phones have a cable attached to it.
          i have a ccna certification, been in it support for more then 4 years. been building personal desktop computers since i was 16. have worked with exchange servers, cisco routing equipment and had to support remote desktop and server environments. suffice to say i have experienced fiber connections and copper connections. VDSL (vectored digital subscriber line)thats the better term used for our FTTN connections is a improvement to ADSL (asynchronous digital subscriber line) is in no way good over copper, the copper cable thats in the pits is all CAT3 cables with no shielding lesser twists in the cables etc. is more prone to outside interference eg FM radio, cable internal signals that can be reflected etc. what you get with fiber is a endpoint to endpoint light signal which as you dont understand transmits data at the speed of light is less prone to outside interference hence has less signal degradation like say copper as copper can have signal degradation from outside interference and ‘oxidation’ meaning rust.
          do you also need me to clarify you network topology with layer 1/2 or 3? or how ip adresses are translated from hexa decimal to binary? as australian laws forbid you as a person to tamper with cabling leading to your house i had to have a acma accredited data cabler guy come into my house to disconnect additional phone lines and replace the main socket mac as that one was defective in preparation for fttn nbn. so the internal house wiring isnt at fault here ‘mate’ i subscribed for a 100/40 connection as i was expecting a good signal with 200m distance from the node search for 40 dry dock circuit, springfield lakes on finder or whatever and look up which node should supply that that said node is located at shearwater terrace in springfield lakes with no pillar next to it, said pillar is somewhere near lakes entrance. you might have been lucky that your pillar was next to the node thats why you dont have that issue but others whose cable has virtually been lenghtened are screwed.

          • Ben Evans
          • Ben Evans

   im not shitting you. Contact you isp and complain. What should you be getting?

            Check in your router, you should have the ability to see what the router is getting

          • mdcheese

            dont you understand? the router is syncing at 43/12 max line sync is at 52/15
            what your pic says is that your line sync rate has a max of 129/53 and it syncs you at 107/44.
            you had the luxury that your node was a) close b) the torpedo was propably place next to it hence you got the sync rate that can be attained at your 200m distance with calculations and whatnot, huge difference to my torpedo that was not placed next to the node.
            i can complain all i want the physical connection of the cable is more than the visible distance from me to the node. and i repeat PHYSICAL connection, thats the copper connection to the pillar and from there to the node!

            even the datacabler told me that because of the line length to the torpedo affected my syncrate hence max attainable download speed.
            you have no fucking idea how this all works.

          • Ben Evans

            Lol. Im 400m from the node ffs.
            I get what i get if your isp is not going to fix or contact nbn co on your behalf is your issue.

            So if im 400m from a node and get that speed then its no issue.
            If your line does go around the block that shit planning not the copper.

            So the moral of the story is copper can handle speeds that were intended for the nbn.

          • mdcheese

            thats not something my isp can fix its development, and that distance wouldnt have mattered if its all fiber to the house! and its only up to that speed that you get on that line and in asynchronous as it is, its not capable of going like 200/200 or even higher as like i wrote its fine for a 200 to 400m distance everything else has a signal degradation proportional to the distance with this last decade tech. you cant improve on that.

          • Ben Evans

            Best contact the accc.
            If you never report anything then nothing Wil happen.
            800m the tech did another house before mine same node getting in the 80s.

            Even tho a nodes are ment to with in 600m of a house.
            As i said you can try say copper is shit when its clearly able to deliver good enough speeds till cost of fibber install is lower and goverment debt comes down so we the tax payers do pay a shit load for something thats not needed yet
            No house user needs 100/40

          • whats real

            You really are a tool! What do you think is cheaper, copper or plastic. What a maggot. this has nothing to do with government debt. I upload 10’s of gigs a day but now that I’m dropping out 5+ times a day I won’t be doing fuck all work and I won’t be paying any fucking tax, get that you coffee club chin stroker.

          • Ben Evans

            Gigs a day from your home what a load of shit.
            You dont even know what your on about for starters

            “I won’t be paying any fucking tax” – everything has tax – once again showing you know nothing about the system

          • benevansisatool

            lol Ben you have no idea. Complaining to your service provider because the NBN FTTN is shit? that will do FA. It’s the libs fault that the hardware is shit, FTTP would have been much better. Our house has 4 people living in it, we often max out our total 30mbps. At least if we had 100mbps then each person could get 25mbps. Try uploading backups of files to the cloud at max speed while 2 people watching netflix each, it slows down. We have to pause backups until overnight when everyone is asleep.

          • Ben Evans

            once again your very uneducated on the FTTN and FTTP and bandwidth.

            see your argument is dumb, if you cant put your own name to your uneducated responses .

            i have 3 laptops 3 tvs and one PC all connected to the NBN that is FTTN connection around 80 to 100Mbps
            you dont even know your “M” to “m” for starters
            at night we have 2 netfix going on 2 tvs, 2 laptops on youtube 1 laptop doing what ever.
            we have 7 people under my room. No buffing! No pausing! No issues at all even tho im 400plus meters from the from my Node
            and 300Km from Melbourne or Canberra

            10gig a day is a load of shit. so stop talking shit.

            As for the libs did this is a load of shit
            Under the Labor party you would only get 100Mbps even tho i have seen speed test on FTTP getting 95Mbps and not a max 100Mbps ( please explain)

            FTTP would of blown the budget out for no extra benifit!

            call bandwidth! isps limit bandwidth to keep cost down.
            but you would have no clue on that as it shows

          • Alex B

            copper was never designed to deliver the required data on adsl yet alone the nbn. FTTP doing it 1st time not 20 yrs later will future proof it as later down the track, it will be way more expensive later to upgrade. Its like building a freeway with traffic signals at intersections and 20 yrs later, build a overpass to make it a express travel. I’m only 50 metres from the node and I get drop outs on sunny days and worse on wet weather days. The copper in my suburb is 50 yrs old or more in some parts. ADSL on wet days was so slow, you pick up the landline phone and hear crackling sounds. This has been going on for 12 yrs for me and is no different on nbn. I have cancelled my nbn and just use my mobile with extra data..$$$$$$$ saved in my pocket, live real simple like before the internet age equals less money spent weekly and less hours at work. Why did I even bother with adsl yet alone nbn???

          • Ben Evans

            ISP are the issues not the fiber network unless someone digs up the fiber.

            if your 50m from your node then you should be gett 100%
            people who got FTTH/FTTB still dont get 100Mbps all the time becuase the ISP are the ones that have the issues.
            If your got a Crackling sound then someone has not done where job properly and there is a fault in a wire. still has nothing to do with speeds that you can get with copper.
            copper over 600m can get 100Mbps no issues

          • Alex B

            stability is the issue with copper and high density living, the NBN should be at least fibre to the curb. My suburb was the classic 1/4 acre block built in the 50’s. Now it has 3 to 4 units and town houses plus a very ageing copper network. Telstra at the time said it is pass it’s use by date and NBN acknowledges that the copper needs to be replaced but it will only happen if 5 or more drop outs everyday.
            Anyway I got fixed wireless on the 5G network. It is far more stable and a alternative to NBN.

          • as someone who works in the industry I can safely say you have no idea what you are talking about ben. Your comments aged very very poorly.

          • Ben Evans

            its sad you have to be a tool when the facts are clear.

            Your ISP is you issue not the NETWORK. if Copper Cant take 100Mbps over 600m then it can keep up easy. If you have drop out its due to your ISP providing the service and not the Copper or the Fiber. Rain hail or shine it will work.
            As the service its moved over to NBN it will only get better

          • whats real

            Just to clarify for people reading in the future, Ben Evans has no idea what he is talking about. GO DONATE TO THE LIBS SOME MORE, TROLL.

          • Ben Evans

            g thats a real name.

            I guess i photo shopped my photos.
            If only you knew what you were talking about.

            the only uneducated troll is yourself

          • Ben Evans

            Not in a city in wodonga victoria and not in the cbd

      • Ben Evans

        No advantage to ftth/fttp. Dont know what you need 100Mbps and no one does unless a huge network. I only have 100/40 due to it only being 60 a month unlimited.

        Later on when home networks get big enough to draw huge amounts of data but thats still years away. 8k videos will need it bit still years away begore they get a huge upload.

        Why do you think libs kept the last bit copper? I would love to hear why “dipshit”

        • zodiark24

          ben evans if ur fttn is so fucking good why is their so many people complaining not being able to get more than 12 and having so many fucking drop outs every one i know and also their mates and their mates mates are slow and tonnes of drop outs on fttn yer so fucking zip it

  • Peter Cesca

    I’m getting 7-12 drop outs a day. FttNowhere is a massive cash cow for NBNco. They provide a connection to the node but not to the home. 14 call outs since I was connected last year. I’m considering closing my nbn connection. I’m so mad right now, if I see a vehicle with nbnco written on it, I’ll strangle whoever is driving it. I’ve had enough.